Podcast | Ready to Be Strong Ep. 23

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Capacity-building is defined as the process of developing and strengthening the skills, instincts, abilities, processes and resources that organizations and communities need to survive, adapt, and thrive in a fast-changing world. (United Nations) 

B Well Conference: B+ Well Conference

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Transcript:

Tania Israel: Welcome to Ready to Be Strong. I’m Tania Israel.

Elizabeth Scharf:  And I’m Elizabeth Scharf

Tania Israel: Together we’re broadening our minds, opening our hearts.

Elizabeth Scharf:  and strengthening connections to face the challenges of living in a divided world.

Tania Israel: In this episode, we’re building capacity. Well, according to the United Nations, capacity building is the process of developing and strengthening the skills, instincts, abilities, processes, and resources that organizations and communities need to survive, adapt, and thrive in a fast-changing world. So Elizabeth, I would love to hear about your experience of perspectives on capacity building.

Elizabeth Scharf: So Tania, this definition of capacity building, I believe is from the United Nations, is that right? I knew it sounded familiar because I’m very familiar with the word capacity building from my work in international development and also nonprofits. I don’t know when it was, but I would say more than about 20 years ago, the word or the term capacity building went into the forefront of these different sectors of nonprofit and international development. And it was a transition of the way in which to assist people. I give it like the analogy of let’s not give someone a fish. Let’s teach them how to fish. And so this was all about building the technical skills essentially of leaders, proximate leaders, so leaders close to problems and helping them solve their own problems.

Tania Israel: I see. So rather than going to other countries from the US and saying, we’re going to be charitable and we’re going to give these communities stuff.. It was saying we’re going to go and help them to build their capacity to thrive on their own.

Elizabeth Scharf: Yes, and also we are not going to go in and become the leaders of those organizations as Americans, for example, or let’s say even in the United States with nonprofits, an outsider coming in and saying, you know, I’m, I know better and I’m going to be the new executive director of your organization. No, actually take a step back. You can provide some, let’s say, financial assistance, but also capacity building, finding the gaps and perhaps some skills that a local organization needs and providing them and training them to grow and have their own capacity to take on their own problems.

Tania Israel: Yeah. So this is like a shift from ⁓ sort of we’re going to come in and do something to you or at you and instead coming in saying like, we’re going to be here to assist you in building, but also let you take the lead. Okay. So I was thinking about capacity building also in terms of a shift from like right now there’s a lot going on where folks are ⁓ resisting, know, and saying, you know, there’s stuff going on in this country right now that we’re not happy about. We’re going to have protests. We’re going to say we’ve got to stop this. And I think that that’s important. I think it’s a really important part of our democracy to pay attention to what’s going on and bring attention to it. And at the same time, I was like, is that where we should be focusing all of our energy?

And the thing that gave me that insight is that I was speaking at a conference a couple weeks ago on bisexual wellness and health. And it was down in LA. And so I drove down to LA and the LA Bisexual Task Force had put together this great event with speakers and workshops and all kinds of things. And over 100 folks came together to just work on our own individual and collective wellness.

It was such a wonderful experience. I felt really connected to people. I felt creative. I felt like I had something useful to offer and I felt like I heard really valuable things from other people. And none of this was about being against something or someone. And that was so refreshing because I feel like mostly the ways to kind of gather and do something these days are in that context of against someone or something. So I don’t know. I was sort of thinking, what do we call that? I thought, well, we’re really building our own capacity to be able to thrive. And also, I mean, it will help us to be able to participate in resistance kinds of activities, but also building activities. Anyway, so I just came up with capacity building but not as much within that kind of global context of that you’re talking about, but more within like an individual community context of where are we focusing our own energy?

Elizabeth Scharf: Mm hmm. It’s interesting because two things come to mind. Don’t I hope you don’t take offense to this. You can. But one is self care. Yeah. The words of the word to word self care. And the other one is around self help. And I feel like  those are so 90s terminology. Well, actually, the self help is probably 90s and then the self care is probably last decade or so, but how does that different than capacity building would you say?

Tania Israel: Oh that’s such a good question because when we’re thinking about our individual capacity building, so, you know, somebody said to me on a podcast, they were like, you know, I, I, don’t mean to diminish anything about your book, but it seems like it’s sort of a self-help approach. I’m like, no, it is self-help. I want people to be able to help themselves.

And that is really important because there are things that we can actually do to, you know, I mean, facing the fracture is really a sort of step by step process of how do we actually navigate the challenges that we’re facing in a divided society. And so that has to do with how we’re dealing with media and social media and our own cognitive biases, but also resilience and intellectual humility and community engagement. So it’s all of these things. But interestingly, if we actually build our own individual capacity in these ways, then it also helps the collective. Because when we are coming into the collective and coming into community and political engagement in a very, I don’t know, not grounded way. And frankly, not necessarily, not just not grounded in terms of our emotional state, but not grounded in terms of not grounding our understanding of political polarization, frankly, within the data, but instead just kind of being driven by our cognitive biases that we have, then we’re just not as effective and it’s also not as sustainable. So I think that there can be approaches to self-help that enable us to be more effective and more sustainable in a broader societal context. That’s very different from if we’re doing it only so that we can feel better and feeling better is good.

But I think that feeling better is, in my view, most useful when it also enables us to engage more fully in our relationships, in our work, in the world, in whatever kinds of goals we have on that level.

Elizabeth Scharf: So this is interesting. All happened at this conference. What did you say the name of the conferences? Yeah. 

Tania Israel: It was called B plus well

Elizabeth Scharf: And what surprises me is that capacity building was a part of this.

Tania Israel: Well, no one there said the words. I was just coming away from it like on the drive back. I was like, that was so great. And I was like, what was it that was so great about that? And I was like, all the other gatherings that I’m seeing happen right now are protests, which again, like I think are useful. But it’s not where I resonate right now. It’s not sort of what I feel like I want to be doing.

There’s something different that I want to be doing that has to do with building or laying the foundation so that when we have the opportunity to rebuild things that are being dismantled, we will be at a place to do that.

Elizabeth Scharf: Yeah, that’s very different than trying to tear something else apart. So what were some examples that you might be able to share of either conversations or topics that people were covering that led you to this conclusion of that was an amazing capacity building experience.

Tania Israel: One of the things was that I got to meet people. I mean, I’ve been doing stuff around bisexual advocacy for a couple of decades now, but I met people who’ve been doing it since the 1980s. And I was like, oh, wow, that’s fantastic. So I felt like I got to meet people who had laid the groundwork for what I’ve been able to do and then really think about how what I can do is to lay the groundwork for people in the future too.

So I really got to see a little bit more of a timeline continuum and think about the work that I’m doing, not just being the work that I’m doing, but how it fits within this larger context. And that feels really good to me, you know, because I think when we sort of think that we’re doing things just in isolation, it’s harder to sustain. And so, I don’t know, that’s something helpful.

Elizabeth Scharf: Yeah, were there other people from different generations?

Tania Israel: Yeah, it was quite a wide range. I met people who were like just out of college and I was talking with them and so they’ll be able to take things in new places. There were also people who were doing so many different kinds of activism and advocacy and wellness kinds of stuff. There are people who are creating films. There are people who are doing different kinds of performance and art. There are people who are doing support groups. There are people who are like building leadership in their communities. 

So it was great to see all these different things that are happening and to get ideas about things to do. I don’t know, I think just to celebrate what different folks are doing as well.

Elizabeth Scharf: Now, I didn’t go to it this year, but it reminds me a little bit of the celebration around Earth Day. And especially in the context of so many different climate change initiatives being defunded. Like, I’m sure there could have been like a giant protest, protest stage here in Santa Barbara, the birthplace of Earth Day. But instead, it’s a celebration and actually a shared space where people can talk about the ways they’re building capacity or they’re working on saving the bees or they’re working on electric vehicles and public safety when you’re using a bicycle, let’s say. And so it’s very positive. 

I’m wondering, and I really like the, because I just, I’ve been reading the newspaper a little too much, especially the politics section, specifically this last Sunday, and my head started spinning again.

And I was like, I don’t know. I don’t know if I have to stop reading this or I need to do something else, including being involved in my community. I just wrote a letter to the school board. But anyway, but I’m now thinking what are different places that I can build capacity or be in community with people that are trying to build rather than take down someone else.

Tania Israel: Can you share a little bit more about what was happening for you as you are reading things?

Elizabeth Scharf: I, I think for the first hundred days, I thought, okay, some of it’s pretty predictable. But then I saw this is going beyond 100 days and it’s going in a very clever way, which is not usually the style of Trump. So there are some very smart people that are working with them, specifically, an act that was, uh, being I believe the court struck down that the government has to take into account, is involving the Civil Rights Act.

It’s actually called like the Non-Liability Act, which is supportive of the Civil Rights Act, which does not allow the government to discriminate when, say, doing a contract with a supplier.

Trump ordered federal agencies to half their use of disparate impact liability, which has been used to assess whether policies have been discriminatory. And for all those legal eagles out there, I’m sure you could describe it better but essentially, it is a huge offense to people’s civil liberties.

I was distraught is probably the best word for it because I thought this is someone really smart that figured out that this is a really big lever in changing things in a multiplier effect. And I was just, I was spinning a bit in my head. I’m like, wow, this is so clever that this is not going to end soon. And there are going to be more things like this that come down the pike. So I’m not sure if I can engage in trying to tear down anymore. I need to do something different.

Tania Israel: Yeah. Yeah. So it’s more aspects of our government that, from your perspective and my perspective, is like trying to prevent discrimination. And ⁓ and these things are being dismantled. Yeah. And you know, everywhere I look, there’s things like this. My colleagues are losing their grants that are either researching marginalized communities or providing support for marginalized communities or supporting graduate students who want to work with marginalized communities. 

I mean, it’s just… There’s a lot of stuff going on on college campuses, certainly colleges, universities as a whole. And I just keep feeling like, okay, there are some things that I can do and where I have small places I can make efforts to support those colleagues or students, I’ll engage with that. But I also am recognizing limitations in terms of what I can do to stop some of these things from happening. Like I can donate money to the ACLU. I can, you know, that there are things there are people who are in better positions and organizations in better positions to do things. But I’m like, we are very early on in this administration and there’s going to be a lot more that’s going to happen. 

So what do I need to do to prepare myself for the long haul and to lay the groundwork so that we can regain some ability to be the ones to make those decisions about policy?  To me, that has to do with staying grounded, staying engaged, staying informed, and not going down the rabbit hole of doom scrolling. 

It means staying healthy which I have a real stuffy nose right now. I don’t sound like the picture of a little bud, ⁓ but really promoting my own wellness and other people’s wellness and also laying the groundwork for midterm elections, for the next presidential election, like these kinds of things. And to me, some of that has to do with the work that I do on how we’re actually engaging with people who have different views, but I would say even more of it how we’re thinking about people who have different views because that’s where I’m seeing a lot of skewed perceptions that are really impeding our ability to be effective when we have those opportunities to engage with other folks.

Elizabeth Scharf: Well, two things. One is I’m thinking about the things that I do in the more capacity building space versus tear everything down on the other side. One is that professionally, I help leaders of organizations, sometimes for profit, sometimes nonprofit, usually underrepresented leaders. And I essentially do capacity building with them. One woman is running a climate change company. Another woman is running a health organization that helps Hispanic women have better health practices. So those are some things that I do and make me feel good. Like I’m building up not just myself, but others. But I’m now reflecting on should I do that more locally as well?

And what does that look like? ⁓ Does it look like working for an organization in town? Does it look like being on a board in town?

The second thing is thinking about how to answer the question, how do we lay the groundwork for the midterm elections? And it’s not that far away. I think campaigning will probably start by what, end of year? Because that would be a year away from midterms. So what do you think that’s going to look like, laying the groundwork for the midterms?

Tania Israel: Well, I hear from so many people these days about how distressed they are about folks who they know who either supported Trump or didn’t vote or, are just in a different place than they are politically. And what I keep hearing from people is, well, I don’t even want to talk to those people. I’ve cut these people out of my life, all these things that I’m like, we have no ability to influence people who we cut out of our lives. 

And when we basically say, well, if you disagree with me, I don’t really care about you, then why would anyone want to put us in charge? So I think what we need to do is show that we really want to understand and want to care about other people. And I’m saying we like collectively on the left rather than saying these people, on the other side are ignorant, are misguided, are being duped, are voting against their own interests. I mean, all the things that we say that, wow, make us sound really superior, you know? then we’re like, I don’t know why they don’t want to vote for us. 

When we say, also, I cannot understand them. And they’re like, yes, you don’t understand us and that’s why we’re not going to vote for you. So I feel like the more we can really try to understand and I think some of what we have to do first is get ourselves in a mindset that’s really curious and recognize just our own limitations in not understanding. 

So anyway, those are some of the things that I think, I’m a psychologist, so I’m thinking on a psychological level, what do we need to do so that we can rebuild those connections with other people? Because I think that’s what we need not only on an election perspective, but also on a

democracy perspective, we need to have interconnections and we need to have community if we want democracy to work.

Elizabeth Scharf: Right. I think that there’s a real opportunity for the segment of the population that voted for Trump that are, after a hundred days saying, maybe that wasn’t such a good idea. And I think there’s a real opportunity to have a conversation with them. And I want to think about, and I hope the Democratic Party is thinking about what are, what are the facts, but also just to have a conversation with them about like, so are you happy? Are you happier now? Like are you more well off after the first hundred days is what you expected out of having Trump come back as president as good as it, you thought it would be. 

So I have to say, those people I would welcome to have a conversation with and have a connection with. It’s a little hard for me to have it with, you know, the 10 % that’s like, even presented with the data, they would not be willing to consider another way of thinking.

Tania Israel: Well, I don’t know that trying to convince people who are way on the other side is a good use of our time and energy. I do think trying to understand them is helpful.I also think, you know, from what I’m reading, you know, people pay attention to the things that fit for them, like we all do. And so I think it’s helpful for us to develop some humility by recognizing where we’ve done the same thing.

You know under president Obama there were a ton of deportations I don’t know many people on the left who are talking about that at the time i’m sure that there were some people but it was and if somebody confronted me with that then i would have been like open look at all these things that he’s doing that i think are really great you know president Obama when he was elected even said i think marriages between a man and a woman and he shifted on that.

But I know so many people who are like, ⁓ I think he’s just saying that I don’t really think that’s what he believes. There was no evidence that that wasn’t what he actually believed. You know, people will project all kinds of things on to leaders. 

So I feel like trying to sort of pick it apart and show people that what they think about Trump isn’t true. I don’t know that,  that is, that that’s gonna be satisfying for us. I don’t know that we’re gonna get what we think we will out of that, which is like, if we just sort of show them logically how he’s not what they hoped he would be, then they’ll come around. Okay, so then again, we are coming across as now I’m gonna get back to your original definition of capacity building.  We’re coming in and saying, ⁓ we know better. We’re going to show you how it should be done and we should be the leaders. And people were like, uh-uh. So I don’t know. from that, if you were going to take that capacity building perspective toward people who, in this country who might disagree and maybe are, not as economically secure as we might be in our lives. I don’t know, how would capacity building apply in the way you think about it from international development?

Elizabeth Scharf: I actually see capacity building happening in our schools with some government programs and partnerships with nonprofits already. So for example, my kids come home and they have different worksheets or flyers or information sheets on good oral hygiene. That is like capacity building. 

There is another one on nutrition. So I’m trying to think of, okay, what does that look like for adults? And I don’t quite know. I mean, I know from how a nonprofit would do it, like the things that I just said right there are examples how, but I don’t know in terms of from a, from their political health.

And that is what I mean by that is voting for people that would support policies and programs that would actually benefit them.

Tania Israel: I’m sort of imagining that when you do capacity building in an international development kind of context, you might say to people, like, tell me what works and doesn’t work in your community. And then when they tell you, you don’t say, ⁓ well, that’s not right, because look at all this, which is, feel like what often we are doing with other people in this country who disagree with us, I don’t think we’re believing them.

And so from a capacity building perspective, it seems like you actually believe people when they tell you more about their perspective. Or I don’t know, like how do you deal with that when you’re coming in and you have a different perspective?

Elizabeth Scharf: So the number one thing in capacity building is to listen. And we don’t do it very well in international development. I think we do it a little bit better, perhaps on the local level based on the data of like, I guess, you know, children’s health and nutrition has gone down in this county and therefore these programs exist.

I don’t think we asked the kids or the parents, like, what do you need? But we did listen to the data or someone listened to the data. So I think once again, it would be probably asking the right questions.

Tania Israel: Yeah, and then I think, thinking about what our reaction is to what we hear them.

Elizabeth Scharf: Yes, yes. And we didn’t, the Democrats didn’t do that for this past election. We definitely didn’t, maybe we heard what people were saying, but we didn’t interpret it in the right way and therefore react in the right way.

Tania Israel: Yeah, and they’re just not going to trust us or want us to be in power. They’re going to fight against us being in power when we are coming from such this kind of superior position. Yeah.

Elizabeth Scharf: That’s true.

Tania Israel: Whew, okay. We came full circle back around a capacity building.

Elizabeth Scharf: We did, we did, we covered a lot of bases.

Tania Israel: So capacity building in this context of political division sounds like it’s about on an individual level really attending to our own wellness, but not disengaging, doing that in such a way that we can continue to engage. Some people are going to do that through protests and resistance. Some people are going to do that through community engagement in various ways or supporting other people’s efforts. 

So there’s lot of different ways that people can continue to engage and that ⁓ might be what we’re trying to build capacity to do ⁓ is to stay engaged, but also building capacity so that when we have the opportunity to support or rebuild things that are being dismantled that we think are having a negative effect on our society and on our country, then we’ll be able to do that, both individually and collectively, we’ll be able to do that. 

So I think that’s a little summary of what we talked about with capacity building. Does that sound right?

Elizabeth Scharf: Absolutely. We went from capacity building around the world to capacity building in our communities and for ourselves.

Tania Israel: How could we do better than that? That’s great. We got it on all levels.

I’m Tania Israel:, professor, psychologist, and author of Facing the Fracture.

Elizabeth Scharf: And I’m Elizabeth Scharf, social entrepreneur and urgent optimist. Make your choice.

Tania Israel: Are you ready to be strong?

Ready to be Strong is brought to you by me, Tania Israel

Elizabeth Scharf: and me, Elizabeth Scharf

Tania Israel: and produced by Serena Bott. Our theme music is by Jeff Marcel at Premium.
Elizabeth Scharf: Bring this conversation into your circles. And please rate and review the show wherever you’re listening. And lastly, share this episode with a friend.