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Transcript

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Tania: I have a friend whose mother fled from Cuba, after the revolution there. And she couldn’t vote at first ’cause, uh, she couldn’t pass the English language. Tests or whatever barriers they had at that point. Oh my gosh, I’m gonna get so emotional about this. She wanted her children to know how important it was to vote. So every election day she would leave the house and say she was going to vote, and then she would come back and tell them she had voted and she always had them filling out the, the sample ballots and things so that they would know that voting was so important. And then she passed the test and the first time she could vote, she couldn’t even tell them that she had just voted. ’cause she’d been telling them that all along, But it says to me how important voting is, whether or not the outcome of the election is decided based on 25 votes in your area, or you know, 25,000 votes, your vote makes a difference because you’re participating in our democracy and that’s what this country is about.

Welcome to Ready To Be Strong. I’m Tania Israel.

Pema: And I’m Pema Rocker

Tania: Together we’re broadening our minds, opening our hearts.

Pema: And strengthening connections in a politically charged election season and beyond.

Tania: In this episode, we’re talking about participating meaningfully in community and country. That includes democracy, voting, community engagement. 

Pema: Tania, you have a story about how all of this began for you. Would you be willing to share that with us?

Tania: Of course. The way I got involved in politics. I was in my forties before it ever happened, and it was fall of 2007. Barack Obama came and spoke in Santa Barbara. It was early in his campaign, and I went to listen to him. I’m sitting up on this grassy hill and he’s talking about Darfur, and I don’t really know anything about Darfur, but I find myself crying.

I’m moved to tears by what he’s saying, and I thought, well, that’s interesting. That’s not a good enough reason to want somebody to be president. But it was enough to make me wanna know more about this person. And so I then listened to the audiobook of the Audacity of Hope, and I, I really delight in listening to Barack Obama read his own books.

Um, it’s kind of dreamy. So I, after that, and that’s really his, his manifesto about how he thinks about politics and. Bringing more sides together and having a positive, optimistic, hopeful stance. And I was like, that’s a good enough reason to want somebody to be president. And so I went to a volunteer meeting and that weekend I went to my first canvas and learned how to canvas and knocked on people’s doors and talked to voters.

And then two weeks later, I started the first neighborhood team for Obama in my living room. And two months later I was the team coordinator for the local Obama campaign. And it was such an amazing experience because I learned everything on the ground. I had no idea how to do any of this, but the campaign really made the tools available to empower us to make a difference.

And once I knew I could make a difference, how could I not keep making a difference? That moment changed my life because it got me on a trajectory of being engaged in our democracy.

And it’s made such a difference to me, to be able to contribute in that way.

Pema: I so appreciate that that’s your trajectory. And it started on that day listening to Barack Obama. What parallels to me about the way he shared, the way you talk about how he shared is that it, like, it comports with your optimism and it, it, uh, when I read your work and I listen to you talk,  you are not shying away from the heft or the challenge of something, but you are looking at, all right, well, what, what am I missing in my understanding? What does somebody else have in understanding that I don’t have? What’s light about this and what are the ways, what are the steps I can take to live into that lightness or live into that empowerment?

Tania: You know what’s great about doing that campaign work? When I hear people talk about elections, people are often talking at this very high level about the electoral college or about, you know, how things are working at this high level. 

When you’re working on a campaign, you’re literally going door to door talking to individual people. And that is so much more meaningful to me than talking about the larger systems. And you build on that, you build from individual people to, to neighborhoods, to precincts, um, to your city and county and state, but the basic unit of measurement in an election. Is the individual voter. And to me that’s really exciting because it’s about each of us, but it’s about each of us in connection with each other and what a difference we make when our collective voices come together.

Pema: What I find so striking is we focus so much on the vote, the vote, the vote, the vote. But what you just shared was organized around the vote but holds so much more in its capacity. There’s going out and canvassing, there’s being part of organizations, there are conversations that are had one-on-one and in groups that you value.

There’s getting involved and feeling really the richness is kind of how I take from what you say. There’s a real richness in participating. I think that we feel like our vote is the way that we participate and it sounds like what you’re saying is there’s so much more than a vote that equates to being in a participatory democracy. 

Tania: Yeah. And that’s the thing about democracy. For it to work well, we need people to participate, we need for people to be involved. And not everybody’s gonna want to be involved in the same way. You know, most people don’t wanna be involved in campaigns, but oh my God, the people who do, they are so committed.

And you know, when I started volunteering, I found this whole treasure trove of people in my community who have been committed to and working for my rights for, you know, my whole life and, and before. And I, and I have such appreciation for people who do that engagement. I mean, I think it’s easy to be really cynical about, you know, people who do campaign stuff and the political people, but the earnestness I see in almost everybody who’s involved in this, is really what stands out.

And that same kind of earnestness can be directed toward not just political engagement, but any kind of thing that we do in our community, in our government, in our schools. You know, that, that, that participation, it benefits not only the larger collective, but it’s actually beneficial to our own health and mental health to volunteer.

Pema: It is interesting to think about this in the context of where we are in time post vaccine. After all of that isolation, during like pandemic time, we, our habits are, we kind of got rewired in our brains a bit. I have talked to so many people who say they’re still relearning how to engage and without the engagement outside our, you know, minds and our houses and our social media, it’s so much easier to make conclusions about other people, the other side, and I love how you say go volunteer at a cultural engagement. Just go put your body in the space at something that’s for enjoyment, but it sounds like indirectly it does because it’s getting me engaged with people again or with people at all and exposing me to folks who I’ve never met and who might be different from me.

And it’s such a simple thought. I love that one of the things that you suggested is, is volunteering at a cultural event. One is it’s volunteering. That’s a totally different engagement than just, uh, showing up after buying a ticket. And, uh, there’s like, um, accountability in it that feels really special. And two, and like an ownership, there’s an ownership in it too.

That feels exciting to have an ownership in a beautiful, big event that is getting created. And the other one is, it’s just putting your body out in a space with other people and exposing ourselves to connection, uh, with all kinds of different folks.

Tania: Yeah, working together with other humans toward a common goal is such a fulfilling practice. So that’s something where if, you know, if you’re a literacy tutor, if you are coaching soccer, like there, if, if you’re a member of, uh, the Rotary Club, you know, anything that you’re doing in your community. And I think some of this, I think you’re right, that, um, that post covid, uh, you know, or wherever we are in Covid, um, but post that, that real isolation lockdown, um, I think that we’re needing to rediscover our connection with community and to see how we’re going to interact with other humans out in the world. And I feel like a lot of where our energy has gotten focused has gotten very, um, very limited. And, you know, it’s nice when we can make choices about sort of exactly who we’re dealing with and make sure that we, you know, don’t ever rub up against people who have different kinds of views or are difficult to deal with, except that we learn so much from that.

Like we’re never gonna go through our lives without any kind of difference of opinion or views or um, or personality. And so all of those little ways that we do that when we’re engaging in community, just make us more flexible and effective people in our own lives and in the world.

Pema: There’s something in my background around conflict. Like, what if I go knock on a door and somebody slams the door in my face? Or how do I possibly have, a statement to say, or a thing to say when, I’ve upset somebody by, by, you know, coming to their door and asking who they’re voting for. So you see how I am immediately framing this, uh, this interaction as a conflict.

I feel like I run into a lot of people who want to feel more self-empowered in the voting process or in the campaigning process, um, in volunteering in this way, but they get shut down about the possibilities.

Tania: Yeah, I think a lot of people shy away from voter contact because in their imagination they’re, they’re thinking that they’re going to be interacting with people who have extreme views on the other side, or they feel like, I don’t know enough to be able to go and talk about these issues with people.

Like, what if somebody asked me how many degrees has the ocean increased? You know, like if you’re talking about environmental issues and. I have to tell you, most people are not talking about things at that level, at their, at their door. Um, first of all, any campaign is most likely gonna send you to talk to people who are likely already on the side of whatever it is you’re advocating.

Um, so so that’s the first thing to know that, that there’s a strategy to this. It, it doesn’t, it’s not good use of human resources to send people out to talk to folks who are gonna slam the door in their face. So you’re probably gonna be sent to talk to people who are at least a little bit open to what you’re, you have to say.

And then the next thing is so much of what you’re doing is just, okay — there’s, there’s steps to what you do in a campaign, and the first one is called voter id. You’re identifying people who are likely to vote for the candidate or issue that you are advocating for. And so it’s, it’s just like checking to see like, oh, are these people on board?

And very often people are, um, voting on the recommendations from a party or an organization. And so, so that’s how a number of people are thinking about things, and it’s, that’s good to know. Um, but, and, and then sometimes there’s some discussion about some of the candidates or issues, and you’ll have preparation for that.

And you’ll also figure some things out, you know, um, in terms of thinking about, okay, well why is it that I’m supporting this person and sharing that can be useful. You don’t have to know, like, what their vote was on all of the different policy things. If people want that kind of information, often, you know, if you’re a volunteer, you, you refer them to somebody to, to go into that more, that there’s no expectation that everyone who’s knocking on doors has that level of knowledge.

But then the last step in what you’re doing, so there’s voter id there, there’s a persuasion component that I have found, uh, it comes up so seldom, you know, to actually be in a persuasion mode. But then there’s get out the vote and actually if there’s anything you’re trying to persuade people to do, it’s just to get their ballots in.

And so that’s really very logistical. It’s helping people figure out how to do that. Like when are they gonna do that? It helps to make a plan. Um, like what time does your poll close? Like all of these sorts of things. So it’s much, uh, easier than people think it’s gonna be. And I love hearing from voters because we’ve already talked about how, you know, the media really skews perceptions and our cognitive biases, skew perceptions.

It’s great getting to hear from everyday Americans about how they’re thinking about issues and what makes it a difference to them. It’s like such an opportunity to get that direct knowledge. 

Pema: I know people who are writing postcards and they’re making calls to get out the vote. And I, I have written postcards in the past. Um, I’ve made some calls, but I haven’t been as successful at that because it’s easier for me to write, to reach out than to call. And I know that when I’m working during the day, I’m not gonna answer that phone call, especially if I think it’s going to be a campaigner asking me for money ’cause I’ve got a system for that and it’s not answering the phone.

Sometimes I want to go and, uh, share my time writing postcards. I’m probably not the person who’s gonna make the calls, but I’ll write the postcards. But what I wonder while I’m writing them and while my friends are calling to get out the vote, is who’s answering the phone or who’s responding to these?

Is, is this empowering? I’m feeling engaged? Is it landing somewhere in a meaningful way? 

Tania: I think that’s a good question. I mean, the thing we know is that what makes the biggest difference is direct voter contact. And frankly, the best way to find people is to go up to their door. I mean, it’s true. People don’t necessarily answer their phones and the kind of one way communication that comes through postcard writing, I mean, I think that it’s better than not writing postcards.

You know, I, I think that it’s good to remind people about how to vote and, and, and all of that. And there’s something that’s meaningful about the process of being engaged in voter contact where you’re actually having an exchange with other people. And so, so to me it’s not just the benefit to the outcome of an election, it’s also thinking about ways that we can each participate in our democracy and, and so that might be that you’re volunteering for a campaign. It might be that you’re, you know, talking to voters about an issue. Or it could be, you know, like I said, maybe you’re, Maybe you’re volunteering in your community in any way.

The, the other thing that I learned a lot about is how to participate in government in, in a lot of different ways, you know. So, so we know that people run for office and so there’s certainly people who’ve run for office. I also served on the Democratic Central Committee, which is like the local branch of the Democratic Party, and that’s actually an elected office.

I served on an appointed commission at the county level. Um, and so I learned about that. And there’s so many different committees and commissions and boards that they need people to serve on these things. And that’s a really interesting way to be involved in government also. So, on every level of this, there’s, there’s ways that you can be engaged in our democracy.

And if you’re like, I don’t wanna go knock on people’s doors and talk to them, that’s okay. There’s other ways of doing that. But I do really encourage people to think about ways of doing that where they are interacting with other humans.

I know that not everybody’s as extroverted as I am, so I understand that.

And I would say try something and see what it’s like.

Pema: I think about an election when I was pretty pinned down and my friend down the street was also incredibly busy, and the next day was election day. And so we’re like, let’s just get together. Um, I’ll bring half of dinner, you make half of dinner.

Um, we’ll put something on for the kids to watch on TV and we’ll talk about the measures, uh, kind of element by element as we go down. And it was so helpful. I mean, the lights were dim. The, the table was a mess with dinner, but we got to like go down our ballot and discuss, well, what do you think about this? And let’s read about it here. And did you look online about that? And it was so helpful to just, the two of us have this discussion as we were voting.

Tania: Yeah, a buddy system is a great thing to do. Um, and this is one of the things that, you know, when I think about on the individual level, what makes a difference for voters, one of the things is just knowing how they’re gonna vote on all the different things. And you might be like, oh yeah, I know who I’m voting for for president.

But then you open up your ballot and there’s like all of these other things on the ballot, and you’re like, well, I don’t know what I’m gonna do with that. What I never want to happen is for that to stop somebody from voting. So when I send out my recommendations, I will identify, uh, you know, what to do for every single thing on the ballot, for every judge and every ballot measure and like all the things, because I don’t want to keep people from voting for the, especially for the things that they really care about, and they know how they wanna vote because they get kind of stuck when they get to a certain point.

And if that then makes them set down their mail-in ballot and never send it back in. Or if that makes them not go to the polls because they, ’cause they’re like, well, I don’t know what I’m gonna do about all of those other things on the ballot, then, then that really is a barrier to full engagement. 

Pema: Mm-Hmm. I mean, I am gonna ask an obscure question ’cause it seems like sometimes the judges feel obscure. Like how, how do I research? Like how do you do your research?

Tania: I drawn a bunch of different sources, but when it comes to judges, honestly, uh, unless they’re okay, so I will look around to see if there’s some kind of campaign against a particular judge in, uh, in which case I will go and do my research and be like, well, what’s that about? And do I agree with that? And all of those things. 

But for the most part, I’m like, I vote yes on the judges. Um, so unless there’s a compelling reason not to, my vote on the judges is always yes. Just because I’m like, I gotta pick one. I gotta pick yes or no. And I wanna give people some guidance in this, but some, you know, it, it seems like when there is sort of a concerted campaign against a particular judge, it’s helpful to look and see why.

Um, and so, and then I’ll look into it. Sometimes I’ll, I’ll call up somebody who is better informed than I am about something and I’ll try to find out from them. And so I draw on a bunch of different, uh, sources to make my decisions. And, you know, when I started doing this, there were a bunch of people who I knew who were like, well, it doesn’t make sense for me to send out recommendations because everybody I know is already involved in politics.

And I think the fact that I didn’t get involved in politics till I was in my forties, I, I have a lot of people in my life who are not political people. And so, so they really see me as somebody who’s more involved and who’s more knowledgeable. And so I can reach people that way. Um, and you know, I, I only am because I’m doing all those things that, you know, that, that any voter might do.

Uh, but I might have a little bit more, uh, insight about some things or more connections to resources to inform my vote.

Pema: I imagine your recommendation list and having that in hand, and I liken it to sitting down with my friend over dinner andlike, discussing, what do we think about this? Like, oh, Tania’s voice is here in her recommendation list and it helps me to think through this also.

So that, that’s really cool to think that I can use people’s recommendation lists in that way as a kind of conversation, if I’m not meeting up with them personally.

Tania: Yeah. And, and a lot of organizations that, that put out the recommendations, they have a very specific endorsement process. Um, I started developing a little endorsement process for myself. So if a, uh, if, if, uh, somebody who’s running for office, uh, once my endorsement, then, you know, I have a series of questions that I ask them just so that I am, you know, do like, I have some process for myself to, to vet them.

Pema: So Tania, what a valuable resource you are. If we don’t know you, what can we do?

Tania: So if you’re not in Santa Barbara County, then my recommendations will not be, uh, very useful to you on the local level. So if you know somebody who seems knowledgeable and whose values, uh, if you feel like coincide with yours, then you can phone a friend, you know, reach out to somebody who’s in your local community.

And that’s what I used to do before I was involved. There was somebody who I was like, this person, like I trust them. And I’m just like, every election day I would be like, who am I supposed to vote for? For county supervisor? So they would always know all the answers. there’s also organizations that do that.

I mean, obviously political parties do that. And so if you feel like your values align with a political party, then you can go with their endorsements. Um, there’s also organizations that are nonpartisan, like the League of Women Voters that are about educating voters about the issues. There’s also more specific issues, organizations like the Sierra Club that will endorse candidates and things. There’s a lot of different places that you might go for those endorsements. Also newspapers, uh, will often endorse, uh, so different media sources will do that.

Pema: I feel like our conversation will be missing something if we don’t talk about an elephant in the room about hearing about how our voting system is challenged over and over, you know, Trump contesting the 2020 vote, what happens when there are challenges to the voting system in an ongoing way. What do we do in the face of those challenges that we keep hearing about and facing? 

Tania: You know, Republicans talk about voter fraud and Democrats talk about voter suppression. And frankly, neither of those things seems to be affecting as many people as voter disengagement. And voter disengagement is something that we each have power over and control over. And so we can each decide to be an engaged voter.

And, uh, that’s actually gonna make a difference in our, in our ability to vote, and to be able to navigate any kind of barriers that there are.

So the first thing that we can do is we can make sure we’re registered to vote in the place where we’re currently living, and there’s lots of resources online, uh, where we can look and see if we’re registered.

also, if we make a plan to vote that actually predicts whether or not we actually vote. So we need to know. How we’re gonna vote. Like do you, can you get a mail-in ballot or do you have to go to the polls? When does voting start? Is it just on election day or can you start sooner than that?

So finding that out for your local area. And you can always contact your county elections office or look on their website. They’ll have information about that. Also, if somebody comes to your door and they wanna talk to, to you about the election, like get the logistics from them, you know, if you’re not sure, find out the, they’re a great resource or if somebody calls, um, it’s harder to ask a postcard.

Uh, so then when you, uh, know how to vote and decide exactly when are you gonna do that, what time are you gonna go? How are you gonna get there? Or what day are you gonna set aside an hour to sit down and go through your ballot and figure out what you’re gonna do with all the things and. Get all of that plan in place so that you can carry that out.

I always recommend people vote as early as possible because sometimes life comes up in and gets in the way of people getting their ballot in in the last minute. 

I have been out there knocking on doors at quarter of eight on election day, you know, in the evening, and there are people who are like, yes, I wanna vote, I wanna get my ballot in.

And they’re like, you know, dashing out. Then to, or I’m driving them to the polls or whatever it is. There’s always the last minute people. So it’s like, yeah, do it as early as you can because otherwise stuff can get in the way and it can especially get in the way the more chaotic your life is like if you are a younger person and you move every year, or if you are raising kids and working multiple jobs, or you know, there are all these ways that if you have less autonomy in your life or if there’s lots more change, then those things can get in the way.

Pema: If I have the capacity and the means and the time to go vote and I perceive that others do not, that feels like more of an invitation to go engage in the process and in my community and see where I can support in my community, uh, to help others engage where they might want to but they can’t. 

Tania: Everything we’ve been talking about here is about how we as individuals can participate in the larger collective. And it makes me think about the motto, uh, e pluribus unum. Out of many one. And I think that that’s a really important concept, uh, that that guides my participation in community and in country is thinking about how each of us as individuals contribute something.

And I really want everybody’s participation in that.

Pema: So I like that you frame all of this interaction as an opportunity to revitalize our connections. We have voting, we have volunteering, we have getting together with a friend over dinner to talk about our ballots and how we might, how we might want to vote. And every one of those feels like it’s revitalizing our connections with ourselves. I know I feel connected with myself when I reach out and engage with others.

Tania: You know, the more I do this work, the more patriotic I feel, the more I want to be connected to all of my fellow Americans. Because, you know, we talk about diversity sometimes in, in the terms of cultural diversity and ethnic diversity, and those things are very important. And in this country there’s tremendous diversity of, of thought and of values and of experience.

Uh, we have all these different states that are united. It’s right there in the name. And in each state, you know, there’s different economies and different geographies and different ways that the people there came to be on that land. And I think that bringing in all of those different voices and all of those different experiences really does strengthen us.

And so I know that sometimes, uh, especially in the voting realm, we are wanting our side to win and the other side to lose. And what I would hope is that we can engage all of the people in that decision making and have all of those voices involved in that process. Because if we’re only about division on some level, we all lose.

Pema: yeah, uh, voting is not a sport, but if it is a sport, let’s get everybody playing.

Tania: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. 

I’m Tania Israel, professor, psychologist, and author of Facing the Fracture.

Pema: I’m Pamela Rocker, creative coach and author of Ash and Spirit. 

Make your choice.

Tania: Are you ready to be strong?  

Tania: Ready to Be Strong was created by me, Tania Israel,

Pema: And me Pema Rocker.

Tania: and edited by Hailey Gray. Our theme music is by Jeff Marcel at Premium Beat.Pema: Bring this conversation into your circles rate and review the show wherever you’re listening. And most importantly, share this episode with a friend.